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 Post subject: Re: Kanadajin3
PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 3:11 pm 
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marie wrote:
magurokatsuo wrote:
marie wrote:
dai8doll wrote:
^ This. If her Japanese was really good, then I kinda understand that she's losing English. But I still think that if you're teaching a language and getting paid for it, you shouldn't be losing it, and no way make a vid about it. But that was discussed already so don't mind me lol


she's not really "forgetting" English, it's just a way of saying it, it is part of a process when you are learning another languages, you unconsciously "mix" your L1 with your 2d, 3rd... ( it is called "language transfer" and its a very complex phenomenon) some people experience this when speaking, some people do it while writing, no matter your level.


Can that language transfer really happen even very different language like between English and Japanese? I can understand that can happen when learning similar language like between Italian and Spanish or other European languages which vocabulary, grammar, pronunciation, and characters are similar more or less or have something in common. But Japanese is very different from English in a lot of ways. I'm wondering, if that can really happen, how and which part of the aspect people can mix them up.
I'm a native Japanese speaker and can understand English somehow like writing like this. I know my English is not perfect and has some mistakes, but it's just because my (poor) English level which is different from mixing them up.


yes, doesn't matter if it's between a Romance language and an Altaic Language/Japonic/Sino-Tibetan/Afroasiatic/.... you can experience this at any level, also advanced students could experience this, some people more often than others. for example, some japanese people have a lot of troubles in spanish with article indefinite of spanish (we have 4) so they "skip" them or use them when it isn't necesary, because they don't have this articles in japanese. but it can also happens from L2 to L1, for example: I'm a native speaker of spanish, and sometimes I change the order of short sentences to the japanese natural order hahahaha it's pretty weird but it is a very common situation


++I forgot to say: sometimes it happens from your L3 to your L1, L4, or your L2 to your L4, pretty crazy. ( imagine that you are a native speaker of korean and you know other 4 languages, with completely different grammar, you need to practice a loooot in order your brain become familiar to all the structures) it's a very interesting phenomenon, this is one of my favorite topics at school lol.

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 Post subject: Re: Kanadajin3
PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 3:19 pm 
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marie wrote:
magurokatsuo wrote:
marie wrote:
dai8doll wrote:
^ This. If her Japanese was really good, then I kinda understand that she's losing English. But I still think that if you're teaching a language and getting paid for it, you shouldn't be losing it, and no way make a vid about it. But that was discussed already so don't mind me lol


she's not really "forgetting" English, it's just a way of saying it, it is part of a process when you are learning another languages, you unconsciously "mix" your L1 with your 2d, 3rd... ( it is called "language transfer" and its a very complex phenomenon) some people experience this when speaking, some people do it while writing, no matter your level.


Can that language transfer really happen even very different language like between English and Japanese? I can understand that can happen when learning similar language like between Italian and Spanish or other European languages which vocabulary, grammar, pronunciation, and characters are similar more or less or have something in common. But Japanese is very different from English in a lot of ways. I'm wondering, if that can really happen, how and which part of the aspect people can mix them up.
I'm a native Japanese speaker and can understand English somehow like writing like this. I know my English is not perfect and has some mistakes, but it's just because my (poor) English level which is different from mixing them up.


yes, doesn't matter if it's between a Romance language and an Altaic Language/Japonic/Sino-Tibetan/Afroasiatic/.... you can experience this at any level, also advanced students could experience this, some people more often than others. for example, some japanese people have a lot of troubles in spanish with article indefinite of spanish (we have 4) so they "skip" them or use them when it isn't necesary, because they don't have this articles in japanese. but it can also happens from L2 to L1, for example: I'm a native speaker of spanish, and sometimes I change the order of short sentences to the japanese natural order hahahaha it's pretty weird but it is a very common situation


I don't really see the point. I don't know anything about Spanish, so let's compare English and Japanese. In Japanese, article (doesn't matter definite or indefinite) simply doesn't exist, so we Japanese native speakers just don't know how and where we should exactly put it. It's different from mixing them up. We simply DO NOT KNOW because article doesn't exist in our language, so if we (I) make mistake on article, it just means a lack of knowledge or experience.
Let's say, if Japanese language had also article system but different from English, and Japanese native speakers make mistake on article when writing English, it's more like mixing them up (between Japanese and English article system). But in real article doesn't exist in Japanese so article itself is just like a new thing or more like an alien that we have never knew or even thought, so it's not mixing up.

Hope you understand my (poor) explanation...


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 Post subject: Re: Kanadajin3
PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 4:00 pm 
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magurokatsuo wrote:

I don't really see the point. I don't know anything about Spanish, so let's compare English and Japanese. In Japanese, article (doesn't matter definite or indefinite) simply doesn't exist, so we Japanese native speakers just don't know how and where we should exactly put it. It's different from mixing them up. We simply DO NOT KNOW because article doesn't exist in our language, so if we (I) make mistake on article, it just means a lack of knowledge or experience.
Let's say, if Japanese language had also article system but different from English, and Japanese native speakers make mistake on article when writing English, it's more like mixing them up (between Japanese and English article system). But in real article doesn't exist in Japanese so article itself is just like a new thing or more like an alien that we have never knew or even thought, so it's not mixing up.

Hope you understand my (poor) explanation...

.[/quote]

I understand what are you saying, of course sometimes your problem could be a lack of knowledge and experience, but even people like translators and interpreters have these problems, people who is very close to a native-speaker level. Language transfer is not only about mixing languages, it is a very complex process. a brief explanation or definition can't explain all but it's not only about mixing words and grammar, it is also about how your brain is trying to adapt to the new systems and it results, it is a very persistent problem.

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 Post subject: Re: Kanadajin3
PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 4:02 pm 
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these photos are sweet. if her character would only match that appearance

http://www.paintwithstars.com/2013/08/mira-kanadajin3.html

before she went to japan, she was a punk with piercings and spiky hair, quite a transformation~ it would kinda interest me to see photos from that time, because I cant imagine her like that :D

talks about her "punker past" in this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPjBbRGYm4E


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 Post subject: Re: Kanadajin3
PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 5:17 pm 
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when she has her mouth closed she looks angry.
I think she has kinda big teeth, right? maybe she has to force her lips closed around them.
like magi does a lot to hide her teeth.

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 Post subject: Re: Kanadajin3
PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 5:49 am 
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marie wrote:
magurokatsuo wrote:

I don't really see the point. I don't know anything about Spanish, so let's compare English and Japanese. In Japanese, article (doesn't matter definite or indefinite) simply doesn't exist, so we Japanese native speakers just don't know how and where we should exactly put it. It's different from mixing them up. We simply DO NOT KNOW because article doesn't exist in our language, so if we (I) make mistake on article, it just means a lack of knowledge or experience.
Let's say, if Japanese language had also article system but different from English, and Japanese native speakers make mistake on article when writing English, it's more like mixing them up (between Japanese and English article system). But in real article doesn't exist in Japanese so article itself is just like a new thing or more like an alien that we have never knew or even thought, so it's not mixing up.

Hope you understand my (poor) explanation...


I understand what are you saying, of course sometimes your problem could be a lack of knowledge and experience, but even people like translators and interpreters have these problems, people who is very close to a native-speaker level. Language transfer is not only about mixing languages, it is a very complex process. a brief explanation or definition can't explain all but it's not only about mixing words and grammar, it is also about how your brain is trying to adapt to the new systems and it results, it is a very persistent problem.

[/quote]


I don't know the exact definition of language transfer, but I see your point. I've studied English that is far from my native language so I, of course, have experienced some difficulties to communicate in foreign language and been in a situation that I couldn't express what I wanted to say.
Still I don't understand how Kanadajin3 can say she's forgetting English instead of the fact she seems to use and teach it, and thinking about her current Japanese level, but anyway thanks for your explanation.


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 Post subject: Re: Kanadajin3
PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 6:24 am 
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chiichan6 wrote:
these photos are sweet. if her character would only match that appearance

http://www.paintwithstars.com/2013/08/mira-kanadajin3.html

before she went to japan, she was a punk with piercings and spiky hair, quite a transformation~ it would kinda interest me to see photos from that time, because I cant imagine her like that :D

talks about her "punker past" in this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPjBbRGYm4E

The closest we can get is to watch her really old videos. In the very first she has a nose ring and in another she has pretty cool hair. But I'd also like to see how she was before she came to Japan

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 Post subject: Re: Kanadajin3
PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 7:50 pm 
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ElegantDepravity wrote:
when she has her mouth closed she looks angry.
I think she has kinda big teeth, right? maybe she has to force her lips closed around them.
like magi does a lot to hide her teeth.


Idk, I think it's her eyebrows, it looks like she's scowling all the time. Funny it kind of suits her personality anyway. I used to go to school with this girl who was a total bitch and her eyebrows were the same way so she always looked like she was mad, even when she was smiling it looked like an evil grin. O_o

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 Post subject: Re: Kanadajin3
PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 8:03 pm 
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well whenever people have to close their mouth around their teeth it always looks like that smile where you HAVE to be polite you know?
Like
HM.
I'm gonna keep my mouth shut and smile but I'm really pissed off.

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 Post subject: Re: Kanadajin3
PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2013 3:56 am 
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RagDollCookie wrote:
chiichan6 wrote:
these photos are sweet. if her character would only match that appearance

http://www.paintwithstars.com/2013/08/mira-kanadajin3.html

before she went to japan, she was a punk with piercings and spiky hair, quite a transformation~ it would kinda interest me to see photos from that time, because I cant imagine her like that :D

talks about her "punker past" in this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPjBbRGYm4E

The closest we can get is to watch her really old videos. In the very first she has a nose ring and in another she has pretty cool hair. But I'd also like to see how she was before she came to Japan

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfLnsL47IAI
So apparently we can see old pics of her on facebook, but I can't find any

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